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L-R: Marc Matys, Vivian Matys-Gleason, Maxwell Matys-Gleason and Robert Gleason
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Father’s Day
Celebrating our community’s dads
Published Thursday, 12-Jun-2008 in issue 1068
The word “overwhelming” is used so frequently, it seems to have lost its impact.
“Overwhelming,” however, is the only word Robert Gleason and Marc Matys could find to describe holding their son, Maxwell, for the first time; and later, when seeing their daughter Vivian for the first time.
The couple, who will celebrate 16 years together this summer, had toyed with the notion of becoming parents throughout their relationship.
Parenthood was something from which the pair thought they and their children would benefit. So began the process of examining options – adoption, fostering, surrogacy – and preparing for a moment, as it turned out, one can never fully prepare for.
They chose surrogacy to bring their son Max, 2, and Vivian, 1, into their lives. Along the way, they’ve confronted challenges and celebrated triumphs every couple – gay or straight – meets in parenthood: potty training, diaper rash, temper tantrums, first words, sleepless nights and the joy of watching their children learn and grow.
Sunday, Matys and Gleason, along with a growing number of gay men, will celebrate Father’s Day with their children.
The impact of seeing and holding their children for the first time is still fresh.
“It is overwhelming,” Gleason said, of holding Max for the first time. “That’s a word that gets used a lot, but there are those moments that are truly all-consuming. I felt an unbelievable sense of responsibility to have this very small life in my hands that is completely dependent on me for his continued existence and it really is … overwhelming. It’s the most of everything – the most joyous, the most frustrating, the most incredible, the most tiring, the most of everything. Particularly with your first child, it’s exhilarating and at the same time terrifying.”
Matys agreed.
“Becoming a parent forever changes your perspective on the world,” Matys said. “When Max and Vivian were both handed to us, it was just as emotional an experience as it would be for any other parent. You’re given this life that you must cultivate, teach, train, love, care for, and when you’re being thrown up on in the middle of the night, you love them just as much as when they say the cutest darn thing you’ve ever heard.”
“It’s such a personal journey, a personal moment, yet you can’t help feel such outward elation,” Matys said of holding his children for the first time. “It really is one of the most moving experiences you will ever have. It changes how you view the sun, the grass, people, situations – it all changes in that one moment, and it really is the most emotional moment I’ve ever experienced. And it was no different when they handed us Vivian than when they handed us Max – we cried just as much out of sheer joy as sheer terror. It all starts at that moment, and they depend on you with every ounce of their being until they’re old enough to care for themselves.”
Coming out again
The couple had considered having children for more than a decade when they took the plunge – suddenly, they were inundated with advice and parenting tips, and, as Matys said, found themselves in the process of coming out again.
“You come out of the closet for the second time,” Matys said. “When you have a child in your life, there’s no hiding. I have a sister who is religious, and she was OK with me being gay, but when I told her we were thinking of having a child, she really had to think about it. I said to her, ‘This is something I’m supposed to be.’ This isn’t a fun little thing we’re doing. We’re older, 39 years old, we understand the responsibility, and this is something we both feel we’re supposed to be.”
Matys had always known he’d be a good dad and Gleason knew the couple would be able to provide a loving environment for a child.
They weighed the benefits of surrogacy against the pros and cons of adopting or foster parenting; in the end, the pair decided it was important to them to be a part of the pregnancy process. Through their agency, they were paired with a surrogate mother who allowed them to accompany her to ultrasounds and gave them frequent updates on her health and baby Max’s progress.
They experienced the anxiety of pregnancy alongside the surrogate mother, and the miracle of birth when Max was born.
Knowing they wanted Max to grow up with at least one sibling, and knowing they wanted the surrogate mother to carry their second child, the couple chose to have Vivian within a year of Max’s birth.
They also restructured their household to accommodate the babies – Gleason maintained his full-time work, while Matys set his business aside to become a full-time, stay-at-home dad.
Matys has navigated the playground politics and fielded questions from Max, who quickly realized there was no “mommy” in the equation.
“Max heard all his little playmates at the park say, ‘mommy, mommy’ and he noticed I’m a ‘pop,’” Matys said.
Becoming a parent forever changes your perspective on the world. When Max and Vivian were both handed to us, it was just as emotional an experience as it would be for any other parent. You’re given this life that you must cultivate, teach, train, love, care for, and when you’re being thrown up on in the middle of the night, you love them just as much as when they say the cutest darn thing you’ve ever heard. — Marc Matys, father to Maxwell and Vivian Matys-Gleason.
“You’d be surprised how quickly kids figure these things out,” Gleason said.
Max tried a number of titles on Matys – “pop,” “mommy,” “moppy” – before settling on “poppy.” Matys and Gleason have taught the toddler that “mommy” and “poppy” are just titles, and that each family is different.
They’ve used Todd Parr’s illustrated children’s books (including It’s Okay to be Different and The Family Book) to underscore their point.
When Max saw a marriage proposal on a television show, Gleason said, he asked Matys if his daddies were married.
Matys told Max that his fathers were married in their hearts.
“Do you have a ring?” Max asked. Matys showed his son the ring he wore, symbolizing his and Gleason’s commitment.
“And he said, ‘OK,’” Gleason said. “That was good enough for him. It was a very simple conversation. He was totally fine with the answer. There’s no need to go into a long conversation about the fight for marriage equality with a two-year-old.”
The couple has answered Max’s questions with honest, simple replies – and the key, they say, is being prepared for the kids to ask questions, whether the questions are relatively simple, or more complex. They’ve thought out their responses to the kids questions about having two dads, and also when the kids ask how they were born.
Matys met another challenge on the playground – a role reversal of a social norm. He didn’t quite fit with the nannies on the playground, or the straight stay-at-home dads. Though he didn’t initially fit with the straight moms, he quickly carved out a role for himself among them.
“It’s a different experience being a man’s in a woman’s world,” he said. “You’re a dad in a mom’s world. You’re not a part of one world, you’re not a part of another. You have to carve out your own existence in that realm.”
Matys became the captain of Max’s playgroup, with more than 20 women and their children attending – and he found the parents faced with the same challenges he and Gleason were faced with.
“Parenthood is the most leveling thing you can do,” Matys said. “It makes no difference if you’re gay or straight – there’s a little life in front of you and you experience the same things. Straight couples experience exactly the same things I do – the same frustrations, the same joy. It evens you.”
The best the world has to offer
Matys and Gleason are far from alone in their journey as gay parents.
According to a report by The Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy at the University of California at Los Angeles, more than half of gay men and 41 percent of lesbians want to have children, and an estimated two million GLB people are interested in adopting.
One in six gay men have fathered or adopted a child, and an estimated 65,500 adopted children are living with a gay or lesbian parent, which is about 4 percent of all adopted children in the United States. More than 16,000 adopted children are living with gay and lesbian parents in California, the highest number among the states, the 2007 report noted. (For more facts, see sidebar.)
Jane Schmoll, director of Family Matters at The San Diego LGBT Community Center, said the growing number of gay and lesbian parents may be attributed to a more accepting society.
“The reason I think, and this is just my personal opinion, we’re seeing more gay and lesbian parents, is because it’s become easier for individuals to identify how to become a parent, and society has become so much more accepting of our families,” said Schmoll, the mother of four kids. “I’ve never had a bad experience with a school or any parents because of my lifestyle. I’ve never had a parent say their children can’t play with my children. As this becomes the norm, whether you’re straight or lesbian or gay, the common thread is the child. All parents want is what’s best for their kids – the best schools, the best the world has to offer. That’s all we want for them.”
Matys and Gleason echoed Schmoll’s words, sharing the blessings of having children and their hopes for their children’s futures.
“One of things I have been most amazed about the ability of kids is that they can completely change your focus in a second,” Gleason said. “No matter how bad my day is or how difficult it was or how focused on something else I am, the minute I walk in the door, Max runs around the corner from the kitchen and gives me a big hug and everything else is forgotten.”
“Our greatest hope for our children … we ended up having this discussion about the reason we wanted to be parents, and the things we hope to impart on our children,” Matys said. “We’d like them to come out of life with an understanding that everyone deserves a place at the table, whether they’re there for the entire meal or just a portion of it. We’d like them to know that everyone deserves a say, even when it doesn’t mirror what you believe. We want them to learn it is just as important to treat people with respect as it is to be treated with respect. We want them to know they are wanted, that they were loved and cared about and that this is something we chose because we thought our lives would benefit, and their lives would benefit. We hope they find their way in the world, and a way to give back.”
Family Matters at The Center hosts weekly support groups for parents and those interested in parenthood, and monthly family functions. On June 21, Family Matters will host a family picnic and sand castle building contest at Ski Beach in Mission Bay from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. For more information on the services Family Matters offers, visit www.sdfamilymatters.org.
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