In what is undoubtedly one of the most crucial mayoral matches in San Diego history, voters on Tuesday will select the person they feel is best suited to fill the void left by Dick Murphy’s resignation, and repair the fiscal wreckage that is “America’s Finest City.” Whoever nails the job interview will surely have to make some tough, unfavorable decisions over the next three years.

The Gay & Lesbian Times caught up with former top cop Jerry Sanders and current San Diego City Councilmember Donna Frye by phone this weekend to check the contenders’ 11th-hour political pulse. Sanders spoke with the GLT before his appearance at the inaugural “Boulevard Boo! Parade,” and Frye while regrouping at home following a forum on open government. Each candidate was asked questions relevant to his or her career, respective campaigns and issues important to the GLBT community.

Last Friday, a jury awarded $7.7 million to the former owner of a Gaslamp Quarter cigar shop whose property the city condemned using powers of eminent domain. The Gran Havana Cigar Factory was taken to make way for a Marriott hotel. Asked for his reaction to the decision, Sanders said, “I think that’s a lot of money. I’m not sure that it needed to be that high.”

Asked if, as mayor, Sanders would exercise such powers and under what circumstances, the former United Way chief executive officer said that eminent domain had been a key component of the downtown area’s redevelopment and growth.

“Downtown could not have been changed if they hadn’t used eminent domain, but when you try to stretch the definition of blight, that’s when you start getting in trouble,” Sanders said. “What is really critical is that we look at that designation of blight. It has to be true. It has to be an open process and we need to be very careful about how we use that.

“The city will use [eminent domain] from time to time, I mean, if it’s in the public good and if you do have that blight finding,” Sanders added. “There’s usually ways around that by working with landowners and by offering a fair price for the property and moving them out and taking care of the moving costs and all that.”

Frye said that as a council member she did not support the city’s decision to take the cigar store.

“I feel that in many instances, and I think it’s getting even more so, that the government is overstepping its eminent domain authorities and using it to essentially take away the rights of small business owners,” Frye said. “Instead of using it for the betterment of the community and providing funds to help the existing community become better and stronger and actually remain in the community, they’re using it to get rid of a lot of the smaller businesses and also some of the residential.”

Frye said she also did not support a recent decision to take residential homes in City Heights to make way for additional housing. She said a proper designation of public use would be roads or a library.

“In many instances the [methods] that are used to determine what is blighted are really subjective…. There were probably a lot of projects downtown, long before I was on the council, that met those findings and they’ve done some really wonderful projects, but simply to use it as a way to acquire parcels so that a larger developer can make more money, I have a problem with that. I don’t think that was the original intention of the law.”

Sanders supports the Boy Scouts of America’s current $1-a-year land lease in Balboa Park, despite the organization’s policy barring gays and atheists from its ranks. Frye opposes the deal. As a newly elected member of the City Council in 2001, she was one of three elected officials who voted against extending the lease.

Sanders said he feels that the organization needs to change its policy to prohibit discrimination, but that children who are currently involved in scouting shouldn’t be denied park access in the meantime.

“I think the local [council] is more willing to evolve,” said Sanders, touting a partnership with [state] Senator Christine Kehoe and Councilmember Toni Atkins in 2002 in which they met with the local Boy Scouts council to educate them on the issue. “They seemed to be at least willing to listen to us and talk with us about the issue.”

Kehoe, who is supporting Frye, said she had no immediate recollection of the meeting.

“I think Boy Scouts is a valuable program,” Sanders said. “I think we need to bring them to the fact that it’s a human-relations issue. That’s what it’s really about is treating everybody with dignity.”

Also on Friday, the San Diego Unified School District reversed a policy implemented in August that began charging scouting groups a fee to meet on school grounds, the same as Bible study groups.

Asked if he felt the Scouts should be allowed to meet on school property, given their exclusionary policy, Sanders said, “I think that each group should be charged the same. Either you don’t charge any group or you charge the same. All nonprofits should be treated exactly the same…. It needs to be evenly applied.”

Frye said she feels that charging groups an equal amount to meet on campus is “fine, so long as the nonprofits or whatever organization does not have any polices that are discriminatory.

“The minute you have an organization that discriminates, in violation of the state constitution, you really need to look at that,” Frye continued. “I don’t think we should be encouraging discrimination. School property is public property, just like parkland is publicly owned…. I’m not saying then that you charge them because they discriminate; it doesn’t make it any better. The city of San Diego has a policy that says you don’t even consider leasing land to organizations that discriminate.”

In terms of GLBT equality, Frye backs same-sex marriage, while Sanders supports civil unions and domestic partnership benefits. At a recent mayoral forum held at The Center, Sanders cited “religious reasons,” for not supporting same-sex marriage. He said the issue is largely one of semantics.

Asked how he feels about the fact that heterosexual couples can take part in a non-religious, civil ceremony and have their union deemed a legal marriage, Sanders said, “I think a civil union or a domestic partnership that has all the rights of that, it just removes that from the issue. We’re always going to have that religious issue with that, and it’s going to strike some communities as a bigger issue.

“I guess my position on this from day one has been that government really shouldn’t be involved in this issue.”

Asked if Sanders recognizes the power the mayor of the nation’s seventh largest city has in shaping public opinion, even though he would not have any direct role in changing the law, he said, “I do recognize that. That’s one of the reasons I’m being careful, but the voice that you’re going to hear from me always is treat everybody with dignity and treat anybody the same.”

On Frye’s Web site, City Attorney Mike Aguirre is quoted as saying, “I had to live for six months with Murphy not telling the people of San Diego the truth – that they didn’t have to raise taxes and that the benefits were legal. Jerry Sanders wants to return to the days of Dick Murphy.”

Asked how Sanders would distinguish himself from the former mayor, who resigned this year in the face of increasing public scrutiny, Sanders cited what he says are “tough decisions” he’s made throughout his career.

“I’m not one who stays in the office and micromanages the organization,” Sanders said. “I’m one who provides leadership, makes the tough decisions, that’s willing to be held responsible [and] that’s out in the community talking with people. I think that’s very different from Dick Murphy.”

Sanders said as mayor he would spend less time at City Hall and more time in the community gauging public opinion. He said he also plans to be in Washington, D.C., and Sacramento lobbying for funds. Sanders said he would hire Ronne Froman, a retired Navy rear admiral and CEO of the American Red Cross of San Diego and Imperial Counties, to serve as a chief operating officer at City Hall.

Asked if he feels this would be in conflict with the voters’ wishes to implement a “strong mayor” form of government, which neither he nor Frye supported and which goes into effect Jan. 1, Sanders replied, “My experience as a CEO with the police department and with United Way is [that] I’m a very hands-on manager. I make the decisions, I listen to the input, I monitor everything going around me; but it’s also critical, from my point of view, to be out in the community talking to people about what the problems are, about how we can better serve them, listening to people’s concerns. You can’t do that from your office, so you need somebody who’s going to run the day-to-day…. Anybody with experience in a large organization will tell you, you cannot, as CEO, run it by yourself. You have to have a good number-two that’s going to be there to support you in everything that you do.”

In press conferences, the oft-mercurial Mike Aguirre, viewed by some as the city’s savior and by others as self-serving, has dogged every member of the City Council except Frye.

Asked about her cordial working relationship with the city attorney, Frye said, “He and I don’t agree on everything, but at the same point in time I am able to work with him, and I work with him well and I support probably most of the positions he’s taken…. The difference is, the way in which I work with people is not to attack them. If I do have disagreements I try and work them out and not always hold press conferences. I’m afraid that if Jerry’s elected we’re going to go back to the kind of Dick Murphy-Mike Aguirre situation that we found before Dick resigned, and that is not good because Jerry has pretty much said he doesn’t agree with the city attorney and he’s going to fight him.”

Sanders did not reply to a follow-up question about how he plans to work with the city attorney if elected.

Though Aguirre has come out in support of Frye’s “Triple A Plan” to solve the city’s fiscal crisis, he chose not to endorse her as a candidate.

“He feels more comfortable not endorsing a candidate, and I respect that,” Frye said. “That’s fine. I really appreciate the fact that he looked at both of [our recovery] plans and made a determination. A lot of what I’m proposing and a lot of the plan that I have put together, many of the things were parts of the plan he had, and … some of them were things that [former San Diego mayoral candidate] Pat Shea had talked about.

“What I liked about Pat Shea’s plan a whole lot is that it was comprehensive and that it would take care of everything,” Frye continued. “It would deal with everything – and not in a piecemeal fashion – and it would have an end date. It would say, ‘Here’s the package, get it done,’ and then we could move on. What I didn’t like about Pat’s was the ‘B’ word [bankruptcy]. I didn’t want that stigma attached to our city…. Taxes and bankruptcy are the two places that I don’t want to go…. Hopefully we could avoid both, but the reality is I’m not going to say that we can because I don’t know if we can.”

One of Sanders’ strongest criticisms of Frye has been her plan to implement a half-cent sales tax increase over the next 10 years. Frye said she would use the tax as a last resort.

“I have a series of very severe cuts that I would enact, and also cease to … recognize the illegally granted benefits,” she said. “As part of a comprehensive package, what I would propose is to establish a labor cap for the city’s general fund. I would make sure that prior to any benefit increases it would go to a vote of the public, just as they do in San Francisco. Also part of that comprehensive package would be asking the voters to require that the city auditor or comptroller be an elected position. It would also include the restructuring of the retirement system so that we could get it to where we could actually afford to pay it. In order to make that work, I would consider asking the voters for a half-cent sales tax increase with a ‘sunset provision.’ This would be part of a comprehensive package, very much like bankruptcy restructuring without having to go into bankruptcy…. This would not be a stand-alone tax.”

Frye has criticized her opponent for changing his position on whether he would propose a tax increase, something Sanders vehemently denied.

“I’ve never shifted,” Sanders said. “What I said was anybody that says that they will take anything off the table is not being honest with you, but I’ve never said I would use a tax or currently [said that] for this problem. My position throughout the primary was taxpayers don’t deserve to bail out the city’s politicians for the bad decisions they’ve made. What I haven’t precluded is down the line, when the city’s restored its trust with the community and with the taxpayers by being honest and living within it’s means, … if taxpayers come forward and say we’d like a different level of service and we want a ballot measure to do this tax, I’ll listen to the will of the taxpayers.”

Frye maintained that Sanders has changed his mind on increasing taxes several times.

“When he was running in the primary he said he wouldn’t rule out tax increases,” Frye said. “He specifically said it, numerous times. And then [former San Diego mayoral candidate] Steve Francis came out with a number of negative ads about that and then right after that Jerry came out and said, ‘I have absolutely ruled out tax increases.’ … He’s never given us a straight answer from the beginning.”

Another difference in the two candidates’ financial recovery plans is the use of pension obligation bonds, which Sanders supports and Frye does not.

“It just incurs more debt,” Frye said. “It doesn’t address the problem. All it does is postpone it.”

Sanders said he supports issuing pension obligation bonds “based on employees’ increased contributions, not based on taxpayers’ contributions.”

Another target for Sanders’ campaign has been Frye’s image as a maverick voice of integrity, ethics and open government. In November 2002, Frye cast the lone vote against under-funding the city’s pension system and increasing pension benefits, a process that over time led to the city’s designation as “Enron by the Sea.”

Sanders has criticized Frye for voting with the full City Council in favor of under-funding the pension system numerous times before then.

Asked about her previous votes in favor of under-funding the pension, Frye said they had been based on a lack of accurate information.

“It was 2002 and the San Diego City Employees’ Retirement System, no one really covered those meetings; there was very little attention focused on that,” Frye said. “In addition, when the mayor’s Blue Ribbon Task Force came forward with their report about the condition of the retirement fund, they erroneously told us that it was almost fully funded, and so the information that was provided and upon which I based my decisions did not cause any great alarm. There was also no connection made in a clear fashion about the relationship between the under-funding and increased benefits…. Even to this day you have the best and the brightest investigating and researching this issue to try and unravel what happened and they still haven’t been able to do that.”

Sanders has also claimed whistleblower Diann Shipione tried to warn Frye and other council members about the situation prior to Frye’s “no” vote.

“I don’t recall her raising that issue before she came down to City Council, at least before we actually took the vote,” Frye responded.

Opponents have also accused Frye of accepting discounted pension credits to enhance her retirement pay.

“At the time, I felt I was paying for whatever benefit I was going to receive,” Frye said.

An opposition mailer sent out last week portraying “The Good Donna” and “The Bad Donna” quotes an article from Voice of San Diego from April of this year, stating that Frye’s “discounted pension credit” is still in place. She said she has since returned most of the credits.

“They’ve taken back most of them,” Frye said. “There’s a part of it that they’ve, because of IRS regulations, will not allow me to unwind, but I don’t believe it and I do believe that there is a way to get out of it.”

Asked how he would have voted on the pension system, Sanders has repeatedly declined to state his position.

“I just don’t even deal with hypotheticals,” Sanders said. “In 2002 I wasn’t in government. I was at United Way and then I was in private business. I’m not going to go back and surmise. I can say anything I want, I just don’t think it’s of any value.”

Frye said her opponent may have had more of a say in the matter than he lets on.

“When Mr. Sanders was the chief of police, his second in command, a gentleman in command named Keith Enerson, was the president of the retirement board, and when the original under-funding proposal began that was under his second in command. It was [former city manager] Jack McGrory and [former mayor] Susan Golding and Keith Enerson that drove, in large part, the beginning of the under-funding,” Frye said. “The fact that Mr. Sanders claims … that he did not know, I mean, it’s troubling. Even after he had retired, he said he couldn’t say anything because there’s a charter provision that doesn’t allow him to. It’s not true, but even if it were true, what precluded him from saying something after he retired, or in 2002 when Diann Shipione came forward?”

In an interview with the San Diego Union-Tribune, Sanders said he was “peripherally aware” of matters before the pension board, but wouldn’t have paid attention to Enerson’s actions on the board. He also said it would have been “inappropriate” for him to do so.

As a police officer, Sanders sued the city because he felt he had been passed over for a promotion 13 times.

“That was in 1977,” Sanders said. “We went into a promotional process with a system that had always been used, and the system changed during the promotional process. That was concerning to me…. When I was promoted about a year later, I dropped my suit.”

Sanders’ trajectory on the force eventually led to his appointment as chief of police in 1993 – a position he held until retiring from the force in 1999.

In his recent book, former San Diego deputy chief of police Norm Stamper cited a disturbing history of power abuses and homophobia within the San Diego Police Department, allegations which some law enforcement officials have disputed. However, Stamper credits Sanders for helping to change those attitudes during his tenure as chief.

“When I went on the police department in 1973, it really reflected society at that point, and it was not a very tolerant society,” Sanders recalled. “Probably when you look at the police department it was more conservative than most other parts….

“I was one of the trainers in terms of a program we started when I was a lieutenant in the early ’80s that looked at women differently,” he continued. “We trained everybody in the police department on women’s issues and how we treated women in the police department. It was a way that we started using for training for every group.

“As I started moving up, I made sure that the organization that I ran inside the police department really reflected the diversity of the department…. Once I became chief it became very easy, and I built what Norm and [former police chief] Bob Burgreen had done in terms of making sure we recognized every community in San Diego … and also making sure that our workforce reflected every community, not only at the line level, but also at the top management level.”

Sanders also touted his appointment of Natalie Stone, the first lesbian sergeant to serve as liaison to the GLBT community.

“I also participated and listened and learned from the police officers who were gay and lesbian,” he said. “I participated in the [Pride] march, right from the start when I was chief. I’ve been in the [Pride] parade for years because I really respected the officers and they asked me to be in it…. I also made sure that all of our promotions, 50 percent of those were women and people of color; the same with our hiring, … and we made sure that in our screening process we took out the questions that used to screen out gay and lesbian people.”

Sanders also cited his efforts to assure anti-gay hate crimes were dealt with.

“Investigations were immediately undertaken whenever things started cropping up,” Sanders said. “We worked with the district attorney’s office on getting a [hate crimes] prosecutor, and we made sure that we were talking about domestic violence in the [GLBT] community.”

Both candidates have said that they would have to make deep cuts to city staff, with the exception of public safety positions such as police officers and fire fighters.

Sanders would cut 10 percent of the general-fund employees. “That’s about 350 positions,” he said. “You’re talking about park and rec, library, any of the departments that aren’t in the enterprise funds. We would hope and I would expect we wouldn’t have to do that, because I fully believe that the labor unions will come back to the table and help us with these issues…. I think they’re going to want to have a role in deciding how to solve the problems of the city.”

Frye has suggested she may need to cut as many as 500 city employees.

“When we transfer over to the strong mayor form of governance, just that little shifting over between the mayor’s office and the city manager’s office, there’s about a 22-percent reduction, at least in dollar amounts, and it does actually reduce staffing levels,” Frye said. “All the departments would be looked at…. For example, the Office of Binational Affairs: There’s one person there. There’s not going to be a cut in [that office] because otherwise there wouldn’t be one. We’re going to look at every single one of them and actually sit down and talk to the employees and say, ‘How do we do this?’ In my opinion, probably one of the most difficult parts of the plan is the cuts, … but absent the cuts it’s going to be very near impossible to get to the amount of money we need to begin to stabilize the budget.”

Sanders has said that Frye’s plan to cease recognizing what she and Aguirre consider “illegally” granted pension benefits would wrap the city up in prolonged litigation that would cost the voters hundreds of millions of dollars.

“I keep pointing out, we’re already in court,” Frye said. “They say, ‘Oh, my god, don’t do it!’ It’s already happening…. This doesn’t preclude us from going to court. What it does is when we go to court, we say, we don’t believe they’re legally granted and we’re not paying them until you say otherwise. Why would we want to pay benefits that we don’t believe were legally granted and are in fact null and void? If you had a dispute with someone over whether you owed them money, would you pay them all the money and then go to court? Of course not.”

As his final remarks, Sanders said, “I’d like to remind readers that I’ve had experience in turning three organizations around, from very large 3,000 members on the police department to the Red Cross and the United Way, and I’ve turned those into transparent and ethical organizations – and that’s exactly what the city needs right now.”

In closing, Frye said, “I tell you the truth about my positions on issues. I’m very clear. I don’t tell you one thing and then do something else. I speak out against what I believe to be discrimination, and I don’t change my message depending on what group I’m in front of. It’s very consistent and it’s very clear. I care deeply about making sure all members of the community are represented, and represented equally. That’s extremely important to me.”

Longtime environmentalist Donna Frye and former police chief Jerry Sanders each have their own cheerleading sections within the GLBT community. Here’s what supporters are saying about their respective candidates:

Ron Ferrero, state board vice-chair for Equality California, is backing Jerry Sanders.

“I like his track record with the organizations that he’s had to lead in the past, particularly the United Way and the Red Cross and the police department,” Ferrero said. “All three of them had their share of financial difficulties … and he really has shown that he can go in and take an organization that’s got very serious problems and turn those organizations around.

“I also like the fact that he’s not a career politician and he’s not using this opportunity to go to higher office,” Ferrero added. “He doesn’t mind going in and making the hard decisions that probably are going to be very unpopular with a lot of organizations that any politician would need [in order to seek] further office.”

Though Equality California works at a state level to legalize same-sex marriage, Ferrero said Sanders would have no impact on the issue as mayor.

“He supports total equal rights for gay couples,” Ferrero said. “He’s said that he will publicly come out against any constitutional amendment on any ballot measure that would prohibit same-sex marriage. If he were using this office to go to higher office, where at one point he could have a legal impact on same-sex marriage, I would want to push him harder to get him to come to full equality on same-sex marriage.”

Ben Dillingham, who served as chief of staff to former mayor Maureen O’Connor, cited Sanders’ experience.

“I think he has a good handle on the financial needs of the city, and I have confidence that he has the ability of bringing us out of the current crisis,” Dillingham said. “I think that the city’s financial crisis outweighs the community interest in this particular election…. On the global issues as to whether he supports gay marriage I think he falls a little short, but I don’t think it overcomes the need for somebody who has the ability to deal with the financial crisis.”

GLBT rights activist Bill Beck and his partner, David Huskey, are both supporting Sanders. Beck said Sanders is a “consensus builder.”

“I’ve done a couple of fund-raisers with him and I’ve seen him and his ability to schmooze people and work with people. [He’s] self-effacing, with a great sense of humor. Those are the characteristics I think that we need at City Hall right now. Instead of polarizing, he has the ability to pull people together and make people want to seek a solution.”

Attorney and City Commissioner Bruce Abrams said Frye has the most “hands-on experience” dealing with city issues.

“She has a grasp of the serious problems we have,” Abrams said. “I think she’s tied into the 21st century. She’s not part of the old guard and all the old cronies, and I think she understands what has to be done, both environmentally and socially, with our country and our city.”

Alex Sachs, head of the Uptown Planners community group, said he thinks Frye is the best choice given the crossroads the city is at.

“I feel that Donna Frye is absolutely the best person to take the city in the direction that I think that we need to go. As a progressive Democrat, I’ve felt that for many years we have been on the cusp of actually being able to elect a progressive as mayor. Donna is clearly the kind of thoughtful person and the kind of intelligent person who has the integrity to let voters know what she thinks, even if some of them don’t like it. She doesn’t pull punches when it comes to talking about the tough choices and tough decisions that have to be made.”

Sachs also said Frye has been firm in standing with the GLBT community.

“She’s been very upfront on LGBT issues when maybe it’s been a hard sell for her constituents, like on the Boy Scout issue. I mean, her constituency in District 6 didn’t just jump up and down saying, ‘Oh, we totally understand what you’re doing there.’”

Longtime activist and former Pride board member Jeri Dilno called Frye a “breath of fresh air at City Hall.”

“She’s someone who does her homework,” Dilno said. “If you listen to her talk for any given length of time, she really knows what she’s talking about. She’s done her homework.”

Dilno also cited Frye’s vote against renewing the Boy Scouts lease as an example of the council member voting her conscience.

“Back when the Boy Scouts issue was first raised, she stood with Toni [Atkins] against all the onslaught of the opposition,” Dilno said. “When a couple of other Democrats on the council kind of backed down, she stood up for what was right in terms of the Human Dignity Ordinance and its application – and it was used against her in the next election. And she has never backed away from that, and when she’s asked about marriage issues it’s an unequivocal yes. She doesn’t qualify it with, ‘Well, maybe this or maybe that’ or trying to water it down with ‘domestic partnership benefits are available.’”

State Senator Christine Kehoe, who also is supporting Frye, called the candidate a “truth teller.”

“I think that she has challenged the manager and the powers that be to tell the people what’s going on, and I admire that,” Kehoe said. “In recent days, when she proposed a half-cent sales tax to help with the pension deficit, I think, again, she’s telling the truth. People always say, ‘Don’t give us campaign promises; just tell us what needs to be done.’ I think she’s done that.”